17:03:42 #startmeeting 17:03:42 Meeting started Wed Jan 29 17:03:42 2014 UTC. The chair is colindixon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:03:42 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:03:46 #topic roll call and agenda 17:03:52 pelase #info in 17:03:56 #info regXboi for opendove 17:03:59 #info Ed Warnicke controller 17:04:08 #info dmm 17:04:13 so, it's not clear to me whether this is supposed to be a release review meeting or not 17:04:23 colindixon: no 17:04:35 dmm: good to know 17:04:41 not sure how I got that impression 17:04:41 #info Abhijit Kumbhare for openflow plugin 17:04:48 dmm: Are Release Reviews Friday? 17:05:26 ok, in that case the agenda should be light today, it's basically about the remaining tasks to get this release done 17:05:30 edwarnike: yes 17:05:31 #info Chris Wright for good measure 17:05:37 0900 PST 17:05:52 probb sent an email around 17:06:02 #info Andrew Grimberg for infrastructure support 17:06:07 dmm: That was what I remembered :) 17:06:13 ok, and it's friday only? 17:06:17 #info Robert Varga for bgpcep/yangtools 17:06:19 * edwarnicke is amazed that he wasn't crazy on this point... 17:06:22 #info phil robb here for various items 17:06:24 colindixion: that is the plan 17:06:37 just sent an FYI email out about the rather persistent 502 errors from nexus showing up in merge builds. I still don't have an ETA on resolution :( 17:06:41 #info the agenda today is remaining items to finish off the release plus topics others want to bring up 17:06:43 * regXboi don't look to regXboi to judge, he knows his sanity is questionable 17:06:47 dmm: Would this be a good place to close the loop with folks about the Release Reviews on Friday? 17:06:52 #topic release reviews 17:07:03 EdWarnicke: you should have received and email 17:07:17 edwarnike: sure 17:07:24 release reviews will be held here, on Friday, January 31st at 0900 PST, correct? 17:07:29 so I can #info it 17:07:35 colindixon: please do 17:07:36 welcome abhijitkumbhare 17:07:41 welcome aboch rather 17:07:48 (damn tab completion) 17:07:50 :-) 17:08:12 #info release reviews will be held here, on Friday, January 31st at 0900 PST 17:08:12 that was thanks - even if not intended for me :-) 17:08:38 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Sample_Release_Review for those that haven't already copied it, this is the sample template for a release review 17:08:48 #info the intent is for these to be 10-15 minutes per project max 17:08:55 Who from each project is committed to being here for their release review with the completed Release Review Doc? 17:08:57 abhijitkumbhare: don't worry, I still love you 17:09:10 cool :-) 17:09:11 colindixon: Could you also point to the guidance on Release Review placement? 17:09:19 edwarnicke: I think dave is gathering that on the mailing list 17:09:34 #info Ed Warnicke commits to being here Friday at 9am PST with a completed Release Review doc for controller 17:09:52 * edwarnicke waits for everyone to be shocked 17:09:56 ;) 17:09:57 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/HydrogenRelease:Documentation_Scope_and_Location this page gives advice on the placement/naming of the release reviews 17:10:14 edwarnicke: you cloning or delegating or ??? 17:10:16 if people that are here can #info that they'll attend for their project or who will, that would be great 17:11:28 #info regXboi should be there for OpenDove - if not, I'll draft colindixon :) 17:11:31 abhijitkumbhare, regXboi rovarga, aboch: that would be you guys 17:11:32 #info Robert Varga will attend review for BGPCEP and yangtools 17:11:35 yay 17:11:52 rovarga: I can see that you, already sent mails 17:12:16 as noted, I would appreciate an earlier slot 17:12:17 abhijitkumbhare: can you make it? or who will be there for ofplugin? 17:12:23 #info Abhijit Kumbhare will attend for OpenFlow plugin 17:12:34 that's everyone that's attending 17:12:40 that's here 17:12:50 ok, next topic is docs unless anyone stops me 17:12:51 Hopefully Michal Rehak will also be there to keep me honest :-) 17:13:02 flip the topic 17:13:09 #topic documentation 17:13:22 so, in my mind this is the biggest remaining hurdle 17:13:59 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Release/Hydrogen this is the root page of current documentation 17:14:07 i like doc-a-thon idea 17:14:15 we really need help here 17:14:23 I tossed out the idea of having a doc-a-thon tomorrow 17:14:25 I am down for the doc-a-thon 17:14:28 doc-a-thon? 17:14:32 not during the week 17:14:36 Especially since extra eyes make it easier to spot bad docs 17:14:39 cdub: probb suggested the doc-a-thon idea some time ago 17:14:58 where we try to have everyone that was writing code until monday instead write docs as much as possible 17:14:58 yeah, although that was more offsite, in person, multi-day 17:15:03 maybe tomorrow 17:15:06 maybe a kickstart of irc tomorrow? 17:15:10 #info Vina will attend for LISP release review 17:15:18 thanks ermagan 17:16:02 so, that leaves the other part of this which is when are we going to call our docs good enough, sweep the cobwebs away and get it ready for having links from the download page 17:16:29 #info colindixon and cdub float the idea of a doc-a-thon, possibly starting tomorrow coordinated (loosely) via IRC 17:16:53 sure, thank you :) 17:17:01 colindixon: I don't expect docs to 'freeze' quite the way code does (at least on a wiki) 17:17:13 But rather to evolve as we see user confusion 17:17:27 I like the doc-a-thon idea 17:17:29 edwarnicke: I agree, but we probably want to remove the "Scratch" section from the root page before release 17:17:39 ok 17:17:50 #help we really need help with docs, please try to lend a hand 17:18:12 #action cdub, edwarnicke, and colindixon will try to coordinate running a loose doc-a-thon tomorrow 17:18:27 ok, I'm going to move to the next topic unless anyone objects 17:18:30 one question: BGP/PCEP come pre-loaded in SP 17:18:32 *nod* 17:18:38 also, everyone feel free to raise new topics 17:18:43 what sort of install guide should we have? 17:19:03 rovarga: I don't think you need to worry about the install guide as long as it gets things up and running 17:19:18 I think the key is to provide a user guide that walks through some example using the project 17:19:24 rovarga: I think that we probably have install guides per edition, not per project 17:19:38 okay, great 17:20:01 could simply point that out in a sentence (you got this via SP...) 17:20:29 cdub: Also a good possibility 17:20:35 Or link to the SP install guide 17:20:43 #info I think that what projects need to worry about the most with documentation is: (1) making sure the install guide for the relevant edition walks through enough to get something working and (2) work through some simple, but useful, example of getting the part of the edition that relies on your project to do something 17:21:20 #info part (2) above would be in the user guide 17:21:41 #info cdub and edwarnicke point out that it's probably worth having a sentence in the user guide pointing to the relevant installation guide, probably with a link 17:21:42 ok 17:22:01 do we have luis? 17:22:04 I think not 17:22:23 #topic download page and downloadable artifacts 17:22:28 #info Alessandro will attend controller release review 17:22:52 there was some back and forth about VMs, OSes, and things on the mailing list in the the last 12 hours or so 17:23:00 can anyone summarize it? 17:23:36 the other part is that if your project requires non-OSGi-bundle things, they need to be wrapped up somehow and made avaiable for downlaod, but I think that's only VTN and OpenDOVE 17:23:46 I'm not sure I understood it the first time through! 17:23:59 shague: are you around 17:24:00 ? 17:24:07 yeah 17:24:29 so, do you understand what the conversation this morning was about the VMs on the download page 17:24:47 or anything else you want to disseminate/make people aware of going into the last 5 days or so 17:25:12 The dicsussions was around that the VMS are not represnetative of how a true deployment would be. 17:25:35 People are not likely to deploy odl on ubuntu 13.04, they would use a LTS release. 17:25:41 summary is that Luis' VM's are for tools/testing, not for the controller. So the VM's we have from the Integration team are not actually tested for running OpenDaylight. Instead it is used/tested for running the tools that test OpenDaylight 17:25:44 (also dbainbri, I'd love to have a quick readout of docker stuff) 17:25:49 shague: Is the issue there just CPqD? 17:25:54 um 17:25:57 (or something else) 17:26:08 then how are we distributing non-OSGi artifacts? 17:26:12 13.04 compare to 12.04LTS 17:26:21 regXboi: Do you have packages (rpms etc) 17:26:53 My thought is the VMS are just a quick start for users. 17:26:54 I'd suggest we either go with the latest LTS or the latest Ubuntu Release generally 17:27:01 shague: I tend to agree with you 17:27:02 edwarnicke: no, ashaikh sent spec files to shague, and I was under the impression they'd be used to make rpms that would be used to distribute 17:27:08 that's not what I'm seeing now 17:27:20 What do you need to do *something*: the installed ODL pieces, OVS, mininet, etc 17:27:27 regXboi: How are you seeing it? 17:27:32 shague: right...as in precanned install of ODL 17:27:50 I've got a zip file for the virtualization edition and the rest (right now) is source code and build 17:28:02 #info There was a discussion on the discuss mailing list this morning about what the VMs being provided on the download page are for and thus what OS they should be running. It appears as though the VMs we have now are more angled for testing than deployment of OpenDaylight. 17:28:49 regXboi: Source code and build strikes me as *radically* un-user-friendly 17:29:03 edwarnicke: exactly, that's why I'm not happy 17:29:06 When I see that as a user/dev... I tend to read it as a giant "Don't use me" sign 17:29:10 so, what's the current plan here? along two axes, first what are we doing for a VM version of the OpenDaylight editions instead of jus testing stuff? second, what are we doing w.r.t. other parts of projects for things like VTN and OpenDOVE? 17:29:34 also, if dbainbri is around, I'll toss in docker 17:29:44 To Luis's point, though, people have questions around what the VMs are and we are having a hard time getting the message that they are just a quick start. We just happen to overlaod the test VMs since they were already built. 17:29:53 regXboi: Are you going to have packages? 17:30:07 it looks like I'm going to have to package things myself (grumble) 17:30:15 edwarnicke: regXboi and anees send in spec files 17:30:22 I"m not sure what happened after that 17:30:28 colindixon: yes, but that was for the quick start VMs 17:30:34 shague: Were you able to do something with their spec files? 17:30:39 the specs are under review. 17:30:41 so, are we not having quick start VMs? 17:30:55 if that's not for general distribution, then we need to pull the rpms back out and put them on the download page 17:31:12 colindixon: I certainly hope we do :) Are we not converging on them? 17:31:33 regXboi: Either way I'd say we should have either the rpms or a yum repo on the download page 17:31:35 I don't know phrobb and shague do you have a good read on that? 17:32:14 I assumed the rpms would be there for OpenDove, Separate from the VM. 17:32:16 edwarnicke: no arugment - I was *hoping* to leverage the build for the quick start VMs and pull the rpms out of that 17:32:32 but it looks like the ball has been dropped somewhere 17:32:46 Guys... we've got paulz here... he's a crackerjack doc guy... was hoping maybe he could help as a bit with doc organization and presentation 17:32:57 The idea was if you wanted your non-edition stuff in a vm you would add them 17:33:20 LuisGomez: hey 17:33:23 ok, so it looks like there was a breakdown in communication somewhere along the line 17:33:37 hi, sorry for joining late 17:33:56 LuisGomez: we're trying to figure out the VMs for the download page 17:34:06 regXboi: Can we unbreak communication here and get things going? 17:34:14 that's what I'm hoping 17:34:22 ok 17:34:34 if I need to produce the rpms, that's a task I wasn't planning for 17:34:40 and it's going to make things dicey 17:35:10 right now, it sounds like we *don't* have quickstart VMs that are built to just nab the editions and run them without having to install anything on your computer outside of a VM 17:35:14 is that right? 17:35:45 regXboi: the specs that Anees pushed, aren't those what you need to build the rpms? 17:35:57 colindixon: i think that is correct 17:36:00 shague: not quite 17:36:14 I wouldn't need to build an rpm for the controller 17:36:19 just for the other components 17:36:28 LuisGomez: it *seems* like we really do want to have quickstart VMs 17:36:38 indeed 17:36:47 and to colindixon's point 17:37:02 we have VMs...they just aren't "quickstart VMs" they have an overloaded purpose 17:37:11 colindixon: thing is it is so easy to download the zip and run it on any environment that why you need a VM for that? 17:37:22 both for consumability and to act as a base for building other components for other projects, like VTN and OpenDOVE 17:37:28 colindixon: I think *definitely* for the vtn and opendove pieces... stuff that just runs out of a zip file isn't *so* bad for the other stuff (though even there VMs with mininet and OVS would be good) 17:37:32 LuisGomez: VTN and OpenDOVE have binary components 17:37:51 worse, OpenDove has kernel mods 17:37:59 for part of our components 17:38:01 cdub: yes we need VMs or rpms for those components 17:38:13 regXboi: Not sure how that will play nicely with others in a VM :( 17:38:29 LuisGomez: so, is there any reason why we can't use the current VMs as quickstart VMs? 17:38:36 edwarnicke: that particular piece would need to be installed in its own VM 17:38:44 because of that concern 17:39:04 edwarnicke: I think regXboi was just hoping he could clone and corrupt the VM and then post it as a separate thing 17:39:21 heh corrupt 17:39:24 * edwarnicke sees the wisdom in regXboi's corruption ;) 17:39:33 that's "augment" 17:39:37 yeah, that idea isn't going to work though 17:39:37 colindixon: current VM you mean test VM? 17:39:49 what's the kernel in the test VM? 17:40:08 shague: feel free to jump in here too 17:40:11 LuisGomez: yes 17:40:29 test VM is made with test purposes 17:41:00 LuisGomez: sure, but it contains a bunch of useful tools and could be augmented with an installation of each edition, right? 17:41:12 yes 17:41:15 and it's been tested 17:41:25 you've even run the controller from inside it, right? 17:41:25 that was the idea. Start with the test VMs. That worked fine for most editions. If you had some thing you needed to augment, then take that VM and augment it. But it would be differnt. 17:41:30 i am good to add installables there 17:41:39 ok, so that sounds like plan A 17:41:43 as i said in the beginning 17:41:44 Lui's gave us a platform that was tested and know to work. 17:42:46 #action LuisGomez and shague to work to turn the test VM into a per-edition quickstart VM that users can download to play around with the controller. Not intended as a production deployment vector though. 17:42:54 ok, that's good 17:43:09 the next thing is figuring out what VTN and OpenDOVE will do 17:43:22 but if we get *that* VMs working with the virtualization edition in it, it's a good start 17:43:34 and I think then brings us back to where we thought we were 17:43:48 LuisGomez, regXboi, shague: does that make sense and is it doable? 17:44:04 sorta 17:44:13 it will get opendove most of the way there 17:44:20 but not 100% across the finish line 17:44:33 colindixon: you and I will have to come up with a separate VM to push across the finish line 17:44:41 regXboi: yes, but it will at least return us back to where we thought we were 17:44:47 shague, LuisGomez? 17:45:24 test sorry i am a little lost here, what is this, another VM? 17:45:46 yeah. The VMs are already per-edition so we are good there. 17:46:01 ok 17:46:08 LuisGomez so, I want to know if you and shague are on board with with turning the test VM into a VM per-edition and it sounds like we are 17:46:11 Are VTN and OVSDB and Affnity goingto be OK with the kernel mods 17:46:11 ok 17:46:22 whoa, edwarnicke 17:46:25 edwarnicke: I don't think we're planning on breaking their VMs 17:46:34 I'm not proposing kernel mods on the per-edition VM 17:46:36 kernel mods? 17:46:48 we're planning on having a separate OpenDOVE VM for the components that require kernel mods 17:46:49 sorry, how can we make the test VM an edtion VM? 17:46:50 ok, whew didn't think so ;) 17:46:58 cdub: I'm not THAT crazy 17:47:06 I'm certifiable, but not nutz 17:47:23 heh 17:47:32 LuisGomez: there will be a VM that runs the controller part of OpenDOVE and there will be a different VM for running the OpenDOVE gateway and the other components that will require kernel mods 17:47:34 * edwarnicke stamps certifiable on regXboi's forhead 17:48:04 colindixon: let's say it this way 17:48:16 the first VM will be an edition VM, the second VM is something that regXboi (and I) will be responsible for creating 17:48:32 there will be a VM that can run the controller part and/or the other parts of OpenDove that don't require kernel mods... and then go on 17:48:41 yes 17:48:44 everything else you said is fine 17:48:54 ok, just to be clear, the test VM can easily have controller artifacts and can be run as controller for demo/test purposes 17:49:07 that's part 1 17:49:20 but why we need then VM/edition? 17:49:29 it will be the same VM 17:49:46 because the controller is different in the different editions? 17:49:47 #info dbainbri - docker 17:50:04 the base controller doesn't have the virtualization bundles... 17:50:43 the integration vms have all three editions in them, Luis correct me if I am wrong. 17:50:47 additionally... virtualization edition has very different options than the other two 17:51:44 hey dbainbri 17:51:49 hello 17:52:33 dbainbri: there's a lot of back and forth about VMs for the last 30 minutes now, you could read that and then I'll maybe ask for some docker info 17:52:41 ok 17:52:49 ACK 17:52:58 regXboi:testVM has 3 folders for 3 different editions 17:53:01 colindixon: docs? 17:53:17 so, given that what's left over is basically a back and forth between shague, LuisGomez, regXboi and maybe VTN later, I'm going to say we take that offline 17:53:21 regXboi: so no point to deplot 3VMs 17:53:27 and move back to docs quickly 17:53:32 and then maybe to docker 17:53:44 colindixon: agree, we can take it offline 17:53:54 yeah, let's do that 17:53:56 #topic documentation again quickly 17:54:07 Guys... meet paulz 17:54:13 He's a great doc guy 17:54:25 I was hoping he could help us a bit with doc presentation and organization 17:54:35 Hi all, I worked on the original ODL docs, so happy to help this time too 17:54:52 ok, cool 17:54:54 paulz: I know you've just been looped in, any thoughts on how we could effectively engage with you to make docs better? 17:54:56 Ed sent me links to the current content, looking for priority, etc 17:55:04 is there anything else you wanted to add? or to know? 17:55:48 paulz: my personal take is that what we need is to make sure the installation guides work and are bulletproof and then we need to have canonical tutorials that take people through using different parts of the editions 17:55:59 colindixon: fire when ready 17:56:14 OK, that makes sense... 17:56:16 paulz: for the most part right now I think that's going to be something like per-project tutorials 17:56:17 colindixon: I think you also pointed to having at least one simple thing to show per edition 17:56:24 yeah 17:56:36 edwarnicke: though for virtualization it's 3 simple things, right? 17:57:08 Probably :) 17:57:23 #info paulz will help us out trying to get the docs together, he did work on the original docs that were released when the consortium went public 17:57:29 edwarnicke: and probably similarly for SP? 17:57:35 base will have one simple thing 17:57:42 and that's documented somewhat I think 17:57:47 but needs to be reviewed 17:57:51 Yes, I did work on the original docs 17:58:01 anyway, welcome paulz, we really need the help 17:58:17 feel free to rope people in on IRC and the mailing lists as much as possible 17:58:26 This is helpful... I can start with this and if I have more questions, I can bring it up at tomorrow's chat... 17:58:30 (I'm going to move on to dbainbri and docker quickly and then end) 17:58:38 paulz: Also... its a wiki, so feel free to edit :) 17:58:39 paulz: don't wait that long if you don't have to 17:58:47 colindixon: sounds great :) 17:58:49 OK 17:59:00 do first, then think about asking for forgivness later, but better yet, don't :p 17:59:05 #topic docker 17:59:19 dbainbri: so, what's going on with docker at this point? 17:59:29 basically it is ready to go. 17:59:40 dbainbri: that's an awesome answer 17:59:47 i have put sample images built from the release distros (ZIP) at https://index.docker.io/u/davidkbainbridge/ 18:00:08 once ODL gets an offical docker.io account i can put them in the official place 18:00:16 :) 18:00:21 edwarnicke, cdub: any idea how we can do that? 18:00:44 I've already emailed helpdesk ccing dbainbri 18:00:46 hi guys. I just got out of another meeting. 18:00:53 And its in tykeal queue 18:01:04 also noticed network static is not on line 18:01:10 #link https://index.docker.io/u/davidkbainbridge/serviceprovider/ dbainbri has created the docker images and put them here, the are ready to go plus or minus anything not included in distribution zips 18:01:11 i am biased, but i think people can try ODL out much faster using docker than the VM approach. (docker run davidkbainbridge/base:latest) and you are good to go. 18:01:18 is there anything for ovsdb 18:01:18 hai, it's in my queue. I'll get the docker account setup today 18:01:30 dbainbri: same binary issues as VM (dove and vtn) 18:01:37 I've been troubleshooting the 502 errors from nexus though so... 18:01:41 #action tykeal will get an opendaylight docker.io account set up and copy the images from dbainbri today 18:01:42 Madhu: Do you guys have someone committed to be here for Release Reviews Fri 9am with a completed Release Review doc? 18:01:58 dbainbri: have you looked at that, by chance? 18:02:00 tykeal: understood 18:02:05 basically this is the distro ZIP files (base, SP, virt) in a ubuntu 12.04 docker image 18:02:06 Yes. myself and networkstatic 18:02:21 Madhu: Awesome, could you #info it in? 18:02:37 cdub: same binary issues? 18:02:45 hoho 18:03:05 dbainbri: vtn and opendove require compiled code (not just java) 18:03:40 dbainbri: so virt edition is incomplete w/out support for those binary bits 18:04:00 ah, so i would say yes and no. the images should work on all linux distros. and for win7/mac0s you have to vargrant up a VM to use docker ;) 18:04:39 dbainbri: I think that's not quite it 18:04:57 right, but the docker image itself needs binary bits 18:05:07 are they not in the ZIP file? 18:05:13 basically, there are extra rpms (or just compiled code) other than just the edition zip/rpm whatever that need to be included 18:05:13 no 18:05:21 no, they need to be compiled for the platform 18:05:22 dbainbri: exactly, they are *not* in the zip 18:05:23 ah, then yes ;) 18:05:26 colindixon: be honest 18:05:38 there's more there than just compiled code 18:05:48 easy to change/fix if someone points me to where they are and how to install them. 18:06:37 dbainbri, I'll try and find you and work through this 18:06:41 #info Madhu and networkstatic will attend the release reviews session at 9a PST on friday on behalf of OVSDB 18:06:43 * cdub needs to go, bbl 18:06:44 along with colindixon's help :) 18:07:17 #action dbainbri and regXboi to work on seeing if docker can help us with getting the other binary artifacts into an OpenDOVE VM or two (with colindixon's help) 18:07:18 dbainbri: regXboi One way to look at it is this... for opendove, there's the controller node and the agent node... and maybe the agent node is just a VM 18:07:21 ok 18:07:39 actually, I look at it a little differently 18:07:49 I'm going to call this meeting unless somebody needs more meeting topics? 18:07:54 but we are almost there :) 18:07:57 and regXboi and edwarnicke and dbainbri can keep talking 18:07:59 kill it 18:08:06 #endmeeting