16:55:48 <regXboi> #startmeeting
16:55:48 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 20 16:55:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is regXboi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:55:48 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:57:39 <dmm> #info dmm (paris)
16:57:55 <dmm> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/TSC:Main#Meeting_Agenda
17:00:06 <vijoy> #info vijoy
17:00:21 <regXboi> #info Ryan Moats (regXboi)
17:00:25 <edwarnicke___> #info Ed Warnicke :)
17:02:58 <cdub> #info Chris Wright
17:03:01 <cdub> (pdx)
17:03:46 <colindixon> are others in the WebEx?
17:03:56 <regXboi> and yes
17:04:10 <cdub> colindixon: i'm dialled in
17:04:15 <vijoy> nothing being shared
17:04:29 <cdub> vijoy: we aren't sharing any more
17:04:33 <vijoy> ah
17:04:45 <colindixon> ok, I'm in, just took a few minuts
17:04:53 <colindixon> #info Colin Dixon
17:04:53 <cdub> vijoy: webex is a conf bridge now...irc for side discussion, meeting notes, and pasting links to things folks want to share
17:05:16 <chrisprice___> #info Chris Price joined the meeting
17:05:19 <Madhu> #info Madhu 
17:05:53 <networkstatic> #info Brent
17:06:08 <cdub> +1
17:06:19 <regXboi> #topic remove minutes from meeting agent
17:06:35 <regXboi> #action acceptance of minutes will now be auto-on
17:07:20 <RobDolin> #info RobDolin proxy for Rajeev Nagar (Microsoft)
17:07:20 <regXboi> #info skipping event updates (phil is not on the call)
17:07:35 <regXboi> #info skipping system integration/testing update (luis is not on the call)
17:07:51 <regXboi> #info skipping creation reviews(s) ... nothing on the list
17:10:25 <regXboi> #topic creation review(s)
17:10:38 <regXboi> #info discussion of the two week requirement for project reviews
17:11:11 <cdub> eliminate the bureaucratic bureaucracy department of redundancy...
17:11:37 <cdub> (heh, that's major delay from minutes == meetbot)
17:11:38 <regXboi> #action Madhu to schedule review of acceleration project to dmm
17:11:45 <regXboi> #topic committers
17:11:47 <RobDolin> #agreed Madhu's proposal will be considered on Thu, Apr 3
17:12:17 <regXboi> #info consideration of Michal Polkorab as new committer on OpenFlowJava
17:12:54 <edwarnicke___> #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/openflowjava-dev/2014-March/000154.html - request to add Michal Polkrab as a committer to openflowjava
17:13:21 <regXboi> thanks RobDolin
17:13:24 <edwarnicke___> #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/openflowjava-dev/2014-March/000151.html - to the call for a vote on the openflowjava-dev mailer
17:13:55 <paulz> #info Paul Zimmerman
17:15:59 <regXboi> #agreed Michal Polkorab will be added as a committer
17:16:06 <RobDolin> #info David Meyer is asking the TSC to vote on approving Michal P. to committer
17:16:07 <edwarnicke___> regXboi: Could you indicate to which project?
17:17:21 <colindixon> #info this is to the openflowjava project
17:17:40 <colindixon> #topic demo of the OpenDaylight Toolkit project
17:17:43 <RobDolin> #info ... committer on OpenFlowJava project
17:18:58 <RobDolin> #info Madhu is sharing screen for demo
17:19:21 <regXboi_> #agreed that was committer to openflowjava
17:19:23 <colindixon> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:OpenDaylight_Toolkit the project proposal (which was e-mailed to TSC and project proposals lists)
17:19:35 <regXboi_> #topic Madhu doing presentation on Archetypes
17:20:02 <colindixon> #link https://maven.apache.org/guides/introduction/introduction-to-archetypes.html maven documentation about archetypes
17:20:10 <regXboi_> thanks colindixon :)
17:20:23 <cdub> colindixon: heh, faster than my link pasting...
17:21:34 <colindixon> #info the general idea of the project is to provide skeletons for OpenDaylight applications which can be quickly spun up (and customized) by leveraging maven archetypes
17:21:57 <colindixon> #info it is informed by the rough edges found while Madhu, networkstatic and others were helping out running hackfests
17:31:02 <dmm> #info this is very cool
17:31:35 <dmm> #info archetypes
17:35:20 <regXboi> #info archetypes can be generated from existing code
17:36:17 <GiovanniMeo> #link http://maven.apache.org/archetype/maven-archetype-plugin/create-from-project-mojo.html
17:36:37 <GiovanniMeo> #info the archetype can also be extracted from an existing project
17:41:26 <vijoy> this is very neat!
17:41:44 <cdub> #info colindixon stresses...eclipse built app w/ _no build errors_ (answers some large percentage of email questions via automation)
17:41:57 <dmm> #info there is a no brainer
17:42:13 <dmm> #info s/there/this
17:43:15 <cdub> #info regXboi suggests this looks like a fundamental architectural shift (fundamental change to how we build ODL and its apps)
17:44:16 <colindixon> #info edwarnicke___ notes that they're really good for simple things, but they have more warts when you get to doing complicated things, so this is unlikely to extend to factoring out all modules in the current ODL codebase
17:44:35 <GiovanniMeo> regXboi this is not a shift on the architecture
17:44:47 <GiovanniMeo> rather this demo is just showing the power of modularity
17:44:55 <GiovanniMeo> we have already on ODL
17:44:55 <edwarnicke___> GiovanniMeo: Agreed
17:45:05 <cdub> so code generation has fundamental limitaions
17:45:13 <GiovanniMeo> but is not clear from building the controller as a monolith for example
17:45:43 <alagalah> WOW
17:46:26 <alagalah> So this is something that will sit outside of the project???
17:46:38 <alagalah> As a way to leverage the project?
17:46:55 <cdub> alagalah: it's a project proposal...so if we accept it, it'd be within the project
17:47:39 <alagalah> Okey dokey
17:47:54 <dmm> my network performance is seriously degrading here. I'm going to use the IRC from here on out
17:47:58 <cdub> alagalah: regardless, it's relevant to the project, and at worst a wonderful example of Forge space usage
17:48:06 <dmm> (unless it gets better)
17:48:07 <regXboi> ok dmm, I'll get serious about scribing
17:48:10 <colindixon> #info even regXboi agrees that this is hugely useful for bringing new people into the project whether it's in hackfests or with new developers
17:48:22 <regXboi> colindixon - you beat me to it :)
17:48:24 <colindixon> regXboi: I can't #topic things as it turns out
17:48:27 <alagalah> cdub:  All for that dude
17:48:31 <regXboi> ok, I'll topic then
17:49:18 <alagalah> cdub: its awesome stuff, just worried we are running faster than we are walking.... and making this consumable but I'll STFU
17:49:48 <cdub> alagalah: this is like...we were running and incoming devs are still crawling
17:49:58 <cdub> alagalah: here is tool to get them up and running
17:50:00 <regXboi> #info question from luis: can archetypes be used for apps on top of MD-SAL
17:50:15 <alagalah> cdub: lolz yeah agreed  that I see the value, this is awesome
17:50:21 <regXboi> #info answer from Madhu: this is independent of MD-SAL/AD-SAL
17:50:31 <GiovanniMeo> #info there is already an archetype for model driven apps
17:50:33 <regXboi> #info so this is a good topic for MD-SAL
17:50:37 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: Are you asking about where the archetypes are accessible?  The 'archetype' gets stored in the nexus repo, and the stuff you generate them is just local (you could check it into git after you'e generated it :) )
17:51:10 <regXboi> dmm: who do you want to call the next topic if you are IRC only?
17:51:23 <dmm> yes, I will let you know
17:51:27 <alagalah> edwarnicke___: Well.... I thought cdub was saying this is a Forge thing
17:51:28 <regXboi> :)
17:51:55 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: ah... I see :)
17:52:56 <cdub> alagalah: no, just that it's a perfect use for ODLForge (esp. if we don't accept this as a project)
17:53:28 <colindixon> we can hear you just fine
17:53:46 <alagalah> cdub: No thats what I understood.... but still this is awesome, tools > examples
17:53:51 <cdub> alagalah: in fact, it's an exact analog to PuppetForge (reusable puppet modules built by community for community that don't have to be part of core puppet release)
17:54:05 <alagalah> cdub: This is what I understood it as
17:54:09 <cdub> ok, cool
17:54:13 <regXboi> #topic stable release (draft 1)
17:54:17 <edwarnicke___> cdub: I can't imagine any reason we wouldn't accept this project ;)
17:54:29 <alagalah> edwarnicke___: ummmmm
17:54:45 <alagalah> Why not make a Forge for this ?
17:54:54 <alagalah> Or is that the project ?
17:55:03 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: We are still trying to get the Forge infra up and stuff
17:55:38 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: My point was in response to cdub's comment "no, just that it's a perfect use for ODLForge (esp. if we don't accept this as a project)" making the point that I can't see any reason we wouldn't accept it
17:56:37 <alagalah> edwarnicke___: Ok here's my point, Madhu has made something really cool, the lowers the barriers to entry, and I think this should be outside of the project, so folks don't have to jump on these calls to ask for permission to do stuff
17:56:57 <regXboi> #info plea from cdub for review of the high level process for stable releases
17:57:41 <RobDolin> #info Ed Warnicke suggests we should get some wiki pages listing bugs that are good candidates for stable branch fixes
17:57:44 <phrobb> Hello folks, I turned on recording.  I'm assuming that it wasn't off for  a reason
17:58:03 <colindixon> phrobb: ugh... so we missed the archetypes demo
17:58:04 <colindixon> oh well
17:58:30 <Madhu> alagalah: that is not true
17:58:32 <dmm> colindixon: no probb available
17:58:36 <Madhu> this is not a ODLForge project.
17:58:40 <RobDolin> #info Ed Warnicke suggests we need a way to handle artifact versioning
17:59:01 <phrobb> dmm: I'm here now
17:59:06 <cdub> #info stable release process...agree we want this, per-project stable branch, per-project committers to manage those branches, guidelines for what goes into that, releasing this
17:59:07 <Madhu> the archetype is a templating tool and other apps can be kickstarted from here
17:59:13 <Madhu> if that helps another project
17:59:26 <Madhu> they will move the app generated from the template to the ODLForge
17:59:31 <dmm> ok, my mistake. welcome probb :-)
17:59:32 <Madhu> and work on the project creation
17:59:39 <alagalah> Ok, so I'll STFU
17:59:56 <GiovanniMeo> regXboi
17:59:57 <RobDolin> #info Chris Wright suggests it will be helpful to have a document that helps committers say no to changes to a stable branch
18:00:01 <GiovanniMeo> i can help there
18:00:16 <colindixon> #info regXboi notes that we need to work on our ability to build snapshots of non-jar stuff so that we don't lose it as we release things. For example documentation and source code.
18:00:52 <dmm> did ryan just say if we screw up opendove it doesn't matter :-)
18:01:20 <colindixon> dmm: no, he said that if we screw up opendove it doesn't break everyone else
18:01:26 <colindixon> dmm: we're a leaf project :p
18:01:27 <cdub> dmm: compression is lossy...so yes you could argue he said that
18:01:49 <alagalah> Madhu: Ok clearly I got this wrong, I think this should be a project +1
18:02:21 <alagalah> But I like the idea of there being a "Forge" for ODL apps and this is an enabler right?
18:02:39 <GiovanniMeo> #info the git tag of the release
18:02:41 <colindixon> alagalah: everyone does and we're working on it (by "we" I really mean other people)
18:02:43 <GiovanniMeo> # is there
18:02:44 <Madhu> I think Forge is more of avoiding the red-tap
18:02:44 <regXboi> dmm: colindixon is right - if opendove gets messed up it's easy to fix and doesn't impact as many as if core gets messed up
18:03:04 <Madhu> while the tool-kit is to enable the developers to get into forge ASAP :)
18:03:10 <alagalah> Madhu: yes, and you know I'm not too bright and it takes me a while to put things together
18:03:28 <Madhu> alagalah: i beg to differ. u r in Noiro now :)
18:04:46 <regXboi> GiovanniMeo: thanks for the offer, I'll find you on #opendaylight to work on this
18:05:35 <GiovanniMeo> regXboi, yes you will find me there more often now
18:05:52 <regXboi> #topic stability, scalability, performance Hyrdogen releases
18:07:31 <regXboi> #info open question on candence
18:07:53 <cdub> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/CrossProject:Stable_Release
18:09:01 <cdub> just cut'n paste of email...formatting isn't perfect
18:11:03 <cdub> #info release cadence discussion...3 dimensions: critical bugfix forces release, time based, queue length based
18:11:47 <cdub> #info one request for time based to make it predictable for users (and developers -- know when the train is leaving the station)
18:21:49 <cdub> #info discussion on what is a stable release seems to converge on "it's only stability/bugfix no new features"
18:22:57 <regXboi> #info RobDolin reporting
18:23:38 <cdub> #info the criteria are guidelines for describing for what goes into the stable release, there are shades of grey here, judgement call needs to be made, we will make mistakes (chances are good at some point we'll introduce regression in stable release)...mitigation for this is transparency
18:23:55 <regXboi> #info a small group of folks are discussing documentation and are thinking of creating a documentation project for providing a clearing house of best practices for documentation as well as documentation tool chain
18:24:43 <cdub> #info stable release patch proposal transparency can be done by literally posting the patch queue to the list (lkml style) or gerrit based mechanism for proposing patches to stable branches w/in a project
18:24:55 <colindixon> I know that mlemay has been working on things
18:24:58 <colindixon> http://docs.inocybe.com/install-guide/install-guide-20140316.pdf
18:25:01 <colindixon> http://docs.inocybe.com/install-guide/content/ch_install.html
18:25:03 <cdub> #info we are gerrit based and more likely to adopt the latter model
18:26:42 <regXboi> colindixon: you want to link those?
18:27:02 <colindixon> #info mlemay (of inocybe) has been working on some documentation efforts
18:27:15 <colindixon> #link http://docs.inocybe.com/install-guide/content/ch_install.html html docs that are the current output
18:27:29 <colindixon> #link http://docs.inocybe.com/install-guide/install-guide-20140316.pdf pdf versions of the same
18:27:47 <edwarnicke___> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/GettingStarted:Developer_Main - master list of IRC channels is here
18:27:49 <RobDolin> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/CrossProject:Documentation_Group <- Cross-project documentation group as mentioned
18:28:30 <RobDolin> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/IRC <- List of IRC channels
18:28:42 <cdub> we also have: https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/IRC
18:28:51 <cdub> db coherency problem
18:29:32 <cdub> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Meetings
18:29:43 <cdub> another db coherency problem
18:29:49 <cdub> it's in the info box per project
18:29:51 <edwarnicke___> RobDolin: Would you consolidate those lists?  I don't really care which one you pick, as long as the one that goes away gets a pointer to the canonical one
18:31:10 <cdub> #info colindixon suggests RSS feed w/ ical to put all meetings in one
18:31:58 <cdub> creates a simple scheduling problem
18:32:21 <cdub> the _only_ way to schedule is to go click on a bunch of links to figure out if your timeslot stomps on someone elses
18:32:37 * cdub prefers https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Meetings and https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/IRC
18:33:00 <colindixon> cdub: +1
18:33:29 <RobDolin> @cdub - Can those .../view/... pages be auto generated ?
18:34:21 <cdub> RobDolin: have to ask tykeal , i don't know how to autogenerate with mediawiki
18:35:17 <cdub> this is what i'm used to: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings
18:35:34 <cdub> and it does include ical feed
18:35:49 <cdub> #info colindixon suggests that we write code for a living
18:36:13 <regXboi> #action colindixon to look into how to coordinate meetings
18:37:00 <regXboi> #info colindixon to look into this
18:37:43 <regXboi> #topic open election status by phrobb
18:37:45 <colindixon> regXboi: thanks, I'll pull in edwarnicke___ and cdub for a bit of help, but the idea that we're going to make things harder because we can't reliable copy information between two wiki pages makes me hurt on the inside
18:39:23 <cdub> regXboi: it's FUD (not in the smear campaign sense...just lack of comfort)
18:39:50 <cdub> regXboi: and i don't agree w/ the decision...but hey...consensus is as consensus does
18:39:53 <colindixon> https://meetings.opendaylight.org/opendaylight-meeting/2014/opendaylight-meeting.2014-03-13-16.59.html bullet #15
18:39:53 * regXboi_ lost my link again
18:40:04 <cdub> regXboi_: it's FUD (not in the smear campaign sense...just lack of comfort)
18:40:09 <cdub> regXboi_: and i don't agree w/ the decision...but hey...consensus is as consensus does
18:40:25 <regXboi_> #info regXboi asked why only committers?
18:40:42 <regXboi_> #info answer was to keep things sane
18:41:43 <regXboi_> #info question is how to remove oneself from the nomination list
18:42:13 <regXboi_> #action phrobb will send email to nominees to get confirmation that they want to run
18:42:26 <regXboi_> #info question on what is the term being elected for
18:42:33 <regXboi_> #info answer is one year
18:43:51 <regXboi> #topic call for new topics
18:44:02 <regXboi> #info question if there will be a meeting next week
18:44:15 <regXboi> #action dmm will propose to cancel next weeks meeting
18:44:53 <regXboi> #endmeeting