15:00:05 <phrobb> #startmeeting Lithium M1/M2
15:00:05 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Wed Jan  7 15:00:05 2015 UTC.  The chair is phrobb. Information about MeetBot at http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html.
15:00:05 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:05 <odl_meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'lithium_m1_m2'
15:00:26 <phrobb> #topic RollCall TSC members and Project Leaders/Contacts Please #info in
15:00:38 <regXboi> #info regXboi (TSC and all around gadfly)
15:01:23 <alagalah> #info alagalah (GBP)
15:01:32 <phrobb> #chair gzhao regXboi colindixon
15:01:32 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: colindixon gzhao phrobb regXboi
15:01:32 <edwarnicke> #info edwarnicke
15:01:42 <lori> #info lori (lispflowmapping)
15:01:42 <colindixon> #info colindixon (TSC, TTP, Docs)
15:01:44 <mlemay> #info mlemay (Docs, Reservation)
15:01:47 <liemmn> #info liemmn (AAA)
15:01:57 * regXboi wonders about being a chair for a IRC only meeting :)
15:02:04 <Venkat_> #info Venkat (LACP)
15:02:08 <hideyuki> #info Hideyuki Tai (VTN)
15:02:11 <ank> #info ankit (plugin2oc)
15:02:34 <vjanandr> #info Vijay for SNBI
15:03:00 <ttkacik__> #info ttkacik for controller and yangtools
15:03:04 <ebrjohn> #info ebrjohn (Brady Johnson) for SFC
15:03:18 <ttkacik__> #info ttkacik__ for controller and yangtools
15:03:27 <dneary> Hi
15:03:31 <bennyr> #info bennyr for Defense4All
15:03:36 <abhijitkumbhare> #info abhijitkumbhare for OpenFlow Plugin
15:03:38 <dneary> #info dneary
15:03:42 <edwarnicke> #info edwarnicke just for fun ;)
15:04:09 <phrobb> One more minute for roll call
15:04:34 <hchen_> Hi, #info hchen for USC
15:04:35 <oflibMichal> #info oflibMichal for openflowjava
15:04:36 <alagalah> #info alagalah (OpFlex POC) (should have put that on the first one)
15:04:38 <abhijitkumbhare> edwarnicke - good to see you having fun :)
15:04:44 <oflibMichal> #info oflibMichal for topoprocessing
15:04:47 <Rajesh__> #info Rajesh (LACP)
15:04:52 <edwarnicke> abhijitkumbhare: Aren't I always having fun? ;)
15:05:10 <abhijitkumbhare> Yes - but edwarnicke its a new year of fun :)
15:05:15 <Ravi> #info Ravi (LACP)
15:05:44 <phrobb> #info The purpose of this meeting is to have a place where project can ask questions of one another, and announce any interesting or/or change in plans
15:05:55 <zxiiro> #info Thanh (Releng)
15:05:59 <regXboi> edwarnicke: you aren't here just for fun, you have that magic "tsc" next to your name!
15:06:24 <phrobb> Before we start with the agenda items I sent, does anyone have any general questions or comments on this meeting?
15:06:50 <colindixon> phrobb: so, is this meeting basically just an open call for questions, concerns and issues?
15:06:54 <dkutenic> #info Dana for bgpcep
15:06:55 <edwarnicke> regXboi: Surely the TSC can be fun
15:07:12 <edwarnicke> colindixon: I think its also a good place to bounce ideas intentions etc
15:07:23 * edwarnicke has a few he'd like to socialize personally, but should probably wait his turn ;)
15:07:28 <phrobb> colindixon:  Yes, just a forum to ensure communcation can happen as projects prepare their final release plans
15:07:45 <Fabiel> #info fabiel.zuniga for PErsistence Data Store
15:07:53 <phrobb> colindixon:  did you have another/addition goals for this meeting?
15:08:13 * edwarnicke suspects we will learn a good format as we go :)
15:08:26 <colindixon> phrobb, edwarnicke: no, that sounds good. I think in the longer run it probably makes sense to spend a few minutes looking over each release plan before they’re finalized at M2.
15:08:28 <abhijitkumbhare> phrobb I think we should really check if there are any project leads who need to have a different timezone meeting - my guess is that there may not be any but for that we will have problems for the Eurpoean timezone folks
15:08:29 <ChristineH> #info ChristineH for snmp4sdn
15:08:49 <phrobb> colindixon:  and all, as we get close to M2 we can review candidate final release plans
15:08:53 <edwarnicke> abhijitkumbhare: That is a good idea :)
15:08:57 <phrobb> abhijitkumbhare:  yes, that is the last agenda item for today
15:09:23 <phrobb> #topic Any questions from one project to another
15:09:58 <phrobb> #info Do any project leaders have requests or informational questions to any other projects for the Lithium Release?
15:10:05 <liemmn> I have a question… Anyone using token-based auth out there?  or are we still using basic auth?
15:10:31 <edwarnicke> liemmn: I am just using basic auth... but am far from representative ;)
15:10:41 <colindixon> liemmn: same for me
15:10:55 <colindixon> liemmn: should we be moving to token based auth?
15:10:59 <liemmn> We would like folks like dlux to start using token-based auth
15:11:00 <liemmn> yep
15:11:13 <alagalah> liemmn: basic
15:11:34 <Venkat_> I am from the India time zone - would the time for the meetings be different every time or would it differ?
15:11:44 <edwarnicke> colindixon: What is the canonical way to record that request?
15:11:55 <edwarnicke> (colindixon liemmn's request)
15:12:01 <ttkacik__> liemmn: basic is useful for quick testing
15:12:31 <colindixon> edwarnicke: I’d put it as a request on the release plan for dlux if one exists yet
15:12:35 <ttkacik__> colindixon: enhancement/improvement bug in bugzilla
15:12:36 <liemmn> yep, for operator, it does not matter, but for application authenticating like dlux, token auth allows federation, etc...
15:12:56 <colindixon> https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/OpenDaylight_dlux:Lithium_Release_Plan#Requests_from_Other_Projects
15:12:56 <gzhao> Venkat_: this might be the only time to have a meeting for all time zones
15:12:58 <colindixon> there'
15:13:08 <phrobb> Venkat_:  the original proposal was to alternate between 8pm and 8am India time
15:13:09 <liemmn> but, let's first have apps do token-auth first, and then we worry about federation...
15:13:18 <edwarnicke> liemmn: Could you take an action to record your request in the manner colindixon pointed to in https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/OpenDaylight_dlux:Lithium_Release_Plan#Requests_from_Other_Projects
15:13:27 <alagalah> liemmn: Do you have a proposed target list other than Dlux ?
15:13:29 <liemmn> got it, ed
15:13:29 <edwarnicke> liemmn: So that its on record with dlux and we can track it?
15:13:31 <mlemay> Liem: As DLUX member, I say we are using Basic Auth but I'd prefer Token if possible, we did OAuth code for AngularJS
15:14:03 <colindixon> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Per-Project_Lithium_Release_Plan_Template#Requests_from_Other_Projects the rough process and template to make a request on another project is here
15:14:04 * edwarnicke worries about things falling between the cracks
15:14:05 <liemmn> AAA uses OAuth2
15:14:41 <colindixon> #info liemmn is asking for dlux to switch to using token-based authentication since it’s an application (and not a human user), which should make it easier
15:15:14 <ttkacik__> colindixon: for controller and yangtools project we extended that process also to contain bug in bugzilla
15:15:20 <alagalah> gzhao: colindixon phrobb Can we get a #link to the current project release task-list dashboard ?
15:15:23 <colindixon> ttkacik__: sounds good
15:15:26 <ttkacik__> colindixon: so we can proper track dependencies
15:15:31 <mlemay> liemm: Yea.. that's what I meant sorry... can we discuss this for DLUX offline as I am meeting with Harman / Maxime tomorrow to review their plan
15:15:35 <abhijitkumbhare> phrobb, colindixon - I have a feeling there will be more requests from projects to each other in the coming few meetings - so will this be an ongoing topic for the next few meetings?
15:15:56 <YuLing> This is YuLing from  TSDR project... our DataCollection Service has a dependency on OpenFlow Plugin statistics collection. We have some questions related to OpenFlow plugin... is it possible for us to get some support from OF plugin team?
15:16:03 <colindixon> #action liemmn to log the request on dlux’s release plan as well as reach out to them as described in the process above
15:16:04 <phrobb> abhijitkumbhare:  that's the idea, we have this meeting weekly at least up until M2
15:16:09 <Venkat_> gzhao: current timing works well for me. thanks!
15:16:10 <abhijitkumbhare> OK
15:16:10 <edwarnicke> ttkacik__: Do you have a link to how to file a bug as a request for controller's release plan?
15:16:30 <colindixon> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/OpenDaylight_dlux:Lithium_Release_Plan#Requests_from_Other_Projects this is the section to formally log the request
15:16:33 <gzhao> alagalah: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPpO9LH539Vlcoa4RvLa6PPCdLifi5JD-ihRhlybqeo/edit#gid=0  <= is this the link?
15:16:52 <abhijitkumbhare> YuLing - we can schedule a meeting sometime
15:17:00 <YuLing> That sounds great
15:17:19 <YuLing> I'll send you invitations
15:17:25 <ttkacik__> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/OpenDaylight_Controller:Lithium:Release_Plan#Requests_from_Other_Projects Controller Request section
15:17:35 <edwarnicke> YuLing: abhijitkumbhare as we figure out the needs, lets make sure we get them recorded in the release plan :)
15:17:44 <colindixon> #info colindixon notest that the formal documenting the request on the release plan is designed to provide a summary of what is hopefully a longer discussion between the two projects that need not be fully logged on the wiki (although a pointer to mailing list threads would be good)
15:18:02 <vishnoianil> #info vishnoianil
15:18:06 <abhijitkumbhare> Yes - we will be doing that - edwarnicke
15:18:06 <edwarnicke> colindixon: Would this also be a good place to highlight possible things that might impact projects downstream?
15:18:11 * edwarnicke :)
15:18:23 <colindixon> #info ttkacik__ notes that the controller and yangtools are asking people to also file bugs for requests so that they can be tracked with dependencies
15:18:37 <Sachi> #info Sachi (plugin2oc and GBP oc Renderer)
15:18:43 <colindixon> phrobb: did you have another topic for general announcements, or is this a good time?
15:18:55 <phrobb> Yes, there is another topic...
15:19:03 <phrobb> Are we finished with questions?
15:19:04 <vishnoianil> sorry i am late to the party
15:19:11 <vishnoianil> i want to share on more info
15:19:14 <phrobb> …. Last call for inter-project questions
15:19:17 <colindixon> abhijitkumbhare: yes I tihnk this meeting will continue and act as a clearing house for cross-project issues—although nothing should stop you for from reaching out via mail not during these meetings
15:19:19 <abhijitkumbhare> welcome to the party vishnoianil
15:19:30 <phrobb> vishnoianil:  announcements are comming up next… good timing
15:19:33 <vishnoianil> i am working on a migrating nsf to openflowplugin
15:19:35 <abhijitkumbhare> yes - of course colindixon
15:19:43 <colindixon> abhijitkumbhare: :-)
15:19:56 <vishnoianil> statistics-manager/forwarding rule manager/inventory manager etc to openflowplugin
15:19:57 <phrobb> #topic Project Announements
15:20:10 <abhijitkumbhare> Good timing vishnoianil :)
15:20:11 <edwarnicke> phrobb: I tend to think personally more in terms of "I think that it would be good to do this and am willing to pick up a shovel and do it... what do you guys thing?"
15:20:12 <edwarnicke> think
15:20:28 <alagalah> phrobb: gzhao I will resend gzhao the GBP project link and also the OpFlex intent email thing.
15:20:50 <alagalah> phrobb: gzhao Will do that this morning
15:20:51 <vishnoianil> i already pushed the intial patch to openflowplugin
15:20:54 <gzhao> alagalah: thanks
15:21:02 <vishnoianil> #link https://git.opendaylight.org/gerrit/#/c/13879/1
15:21:06 <edwarnicke> I would like to suggest that we turn on clustering for the odl-mdsal-broker by default soon.  I am told that it works correctly in single node mode, and thus the controller would be out of the box cluster able.
15:21:10 <gzhao> alagalah: GBP only need update link of release plan
15:21:11 <Sachi> I am working on GBP OC renderer which will map policy in Juniper Opencontrail controller.. Can I get some documentation about yang data modelling being done
15:21:33 <abhijitkumbhare> #info vishnoianil working on moving nsf to openflowplugin - has pushed the initial patch to openflowplugin
15:21:35 <mlemay> edwarnicke: +1 on clustering by default
15:21:42 <alagalah> gzhao: Ack that but I see that OpFlex isn't tracked but deadline is tomorrow for OpFlex to announce intent to participate in SR so I will do both at same time
15:21:45 <abhijitkumbhare> #link  https://git.opendaylight.org/gerrit/#/c/13879/1
15:22:04 <colindixon> abhijitkumbhare: what—if any—is the impact on other projects?
15:22:15 <sheena_> # am working on transition of plugin2Oc from ad-sal to md-sal....I have one query is INeutronAware interface is available as a provider services so that the same can be implemented by any SB plugin and hence follow MD-SAL provider/consumer architecture..  ?
15:22:15 <edwarnicke> I mention it because it *should* just be a transparent change... odl-mdsal-broker becomes odl-mdsal-broker-localonly, and odl-mdsal-broker picks up clustering... but wanted others thoughts
15:22:16 <abhijitkumbhare> #info NSFs affected 	 statistics-manager/forwarding rule manager/inventory manager etc
15:22:47 <ttkacik__> sheena_: currently not... but there is plan to make neutron MD-SAL ready
15:22:50 <edwarnicke> ttkacik__: Is controller ok with the flow stuff moving to OFplugin?
15:23:04 <phrobb> alagalah:  did you see sachi's request?
15:23:23 <sheena_> ok thanks...:)
15:23:29 <ttkacik__> edwarnicke: yes... we also planned to propose this but ofplugin folks were faster
15:23:33 <vishnoianil> edwarnicke: i believe we discussed in mailing list, and i didn't see any -1 for that
15:23:45 <alagalah> phrobb: Yes and I have been unicasting her before and during the meeting. Sachi I believe your request is intra-project, and I've discussed with you a plan. I hope that is sufficient for now
15:23:58 <edwarnicke> I recall it being discussed, and I'm hugely supportive (see my patchwork in that direction... just wanted to make sure we minded our p's and q's ;)
15:24:06 <phrobb> thanks alagalah
15:24:18 <vishnoianil> edwarnicke, totally agree :)
15:24:20 <abhijitkumbhare> colindixon: From what we discussed in the OF plugin meeting sometime ago - there may be some testing needed from projects - vishnoianil can you expand on this?
15:24:21 <edwarnicke> sheena_: Ping me on IRC offline and I'll help you get the neutron stuff cleared up :)
15:24:38 <colindixon> #info edwarnicke says he’d like to see us move to using the clustered md-sal-broker by default at some point soon, it should be transparent, but people should be aware
15:24:50 <edwarnicke> sheena_: I did the work to make neutron not depend on the AD-SAL pieces, and it should be pretty easy (*almost* transparent) for you to migrate ;)
15:25:08 <deepankar> #link  https://bugs.opendaylight.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1674  for LBaaS need to be fixed. This will be needed for plugin2oc implementation
15:25:13 <colindixon> sheena_: there is also *some* disuscussion of md-sal native Neutron interfaces
15:25:19 <edwarnicke> #info edwarnicke will be sending email for these things to the lists as well (its nice to talk in IRC, but we should get it out to email too)
15:25:35 <colindixon> sheena_:  https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/OpenDaylight_Controller:Neutron_RESTCONF
15:25:41 <edwarnicke> colindixon: Would it make sense to move those discussions to a cross-project neutron call?
15:25:50 <sheena_> ok _ :edwarnicke
15:25:53 <edwarnicke> Since there are multiple projects with an interest in the subject?
15:25:56 <colindixon> edwarnicke: likely
15:26:08 <phrobb> edwarnicke:  when you use terms like "these things" in #info messages, it's quite the mystery when you read them later :-)
15:26:10 <rovarga> edwarnicke: I do not believe clustering is ready to be the reference implementation yet
15:26:11 <colindixon> #info sheena_ asks about how to move the MD-SAL and still use INeutronAware
15:26:17 <edwarnicke> colindixon: Could you take the AI to organize such a call?
15:26:24 <regXboi> colindixon: what????
15:26:25 <edwarnicke> #info edwarnicke notes that phrobb said something about something
15:26:27 <edwarnicke> ;)
15:26:31 <lori> lispflowmapping is also intrested in moving from AD-SAL-based Neutron to MD-SAL
15:26:34 <phrobb> LOL
15:26:44 <edwarnicke> phrobb: I will endevour to do better, thank you very much for the correction ;)
15:26:51 * edwarnicke couldn't resist the counter tease though ;)
15:27:24 <colindixon> #info edwarnicke says that INeutronAware has been moved to be not AD-SAL dependent, but merely OSGi bundles
15:27:34 <edwarnicke> lori: Cool... ping me offline and we can get you through the initial steps to break off the AD-SAL bits pulled into lispflowmapping by neutron
15:27:38 * edwarnicke should really do a wiki page...
15:27:52 <regXboi> #info regXboi says as far as INeutronAware is concerned that is how it should be
15:27:52 <lori> edwarnicke: thanks, will do
15:27:59 <vishnoianil> happy to see project are planning to migrate to md-sal
15:28:07 * edwarnicke thanks regXboi for his help in getting it done :)
15:28:08 <colindixon> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/OpenDaylight_Controller:Neutron_RESTCONF colindixon notes that there has been some work on building an MD-SAL native Neutron bindings
15:28:15 <alagalah> phrobb: colindixon gzhao May I make a format suggestion ?
15:28:39 <regXboi> colindixon: that link is a BAD idea
15:28:41 <colindixon> edwarnicke: I’d rather not take the #action, but I may delegate
15:28:53 <phrobb> alagalah:  of course
15:29:16 <alagalah> phrobb: colindixon gzhao I'll make a few and I'll start with a SYN and finish with a FIN :)
15:29:41 <colindixon> regXboi: we should probably take that offline, greg hall and some others have been working on it, but what’s the one-line version?
15:30:01 <alagalah> SYN : 1. Publish a wiki page for agenda, where folks can pre-populate with questions for other projects (why not just email? Cos if its structured it may get others asking the same question they hadn't thought of).
15:30:10 <regXboi> neutron interface is evolving outside our control - encoding it in yang is not something I get behind
15:30:16 <ebrjohn> alagalah: I hope you wont wait for an ACK after each message ;)
15:30:17 <alagalah> 2. Make sure the agenda is up front and reviewed so people know what is coming up so they can wait on questions
15:30:19 <alagalah> FIN
15:30:22 <regXboi> that's the one liner
15:30:49 <phrobb> alagalah:  Excellent suggestions
15:30:50 <regXboi> at least somebody is going to have to explain *why* it's a good idea
15:30:52 <colindixon> regXboi: I think the goal is not to make YANG map directy to the Neutron interface, but to get as close as we can and then deal with the rest in a shim layer that is as thin as possible
15:30:55 <colindixon> alagalah: +10
15:31:15 <regXboi> colindixon: let's take it off line, but that's not how I read that wiki page
15:31:27 <alagalah> phrobb: colindixon If it pleases the court :) I can have a stab at making a page... just give me a good root location
15:31:52 <phrobb> alagalah:  Let's work offline to put one up together
15:32:00 <colindixon> #info alagalah suggests that for future meetings we use a wiki page to generate an agenda ahead of time so that we can aggregate similar concerns and to let people review them to be better prepared
15:32:07 <regXboi> #action alagalah to take stab at making agenda wiki page for M1 cross-project meetings (working with phrobb)
15:32:11 * regXboi delegates :)
15:32:12 <colindixon> thanks regXboi
15:32:39 <regXboi> colindixon: somebody made the mistake of giving me chair privs (evil laugh in background)
15:32:48 <alagalah> colindixon: I need a good root location
15:33:03 <alagalah> gzhao: thoughts ?
15:33:15 <colindixon> regXboi: the logic is that—given the state of maintanence of the AD-SAL—we want to have the state for Neutron be an MD-SAL construct at some point and given that you likely want to do it as soon as possible
15:33:21 <gzhao> alagalah: I like the wiki idea
15:33:26 <regXboi> Lithium_Release:Cross_Project_Meetings:Agenda?
15:33:27 <phrobb> alagalah:  We'll probably hang it off the Lithium Release plan page somewhere
15:33:38 <alagalah> regXboi: DONE! Thanks
15:33:52 <regXboi> colindixon: Neutron should be SAL agnostic!
15:34:01 <colindixon> #action colindixon to set up a thread/meeting with stakeholders from Neutron related projectecs about the proposed MD-SAL neutron interface
15:34:13 <colindixon> regXboi: +1 at the top layer
15:34:34 <regXboi> in fact, I'll go further... ALL NB should be SAL agnostic
15:34:35 <colindixon> regXboi: at some point it has to be SAL dependent and the question is just how much lives above vs. below that line
15:34:37 <abhijitkumbhare> alagalah phrobb - may be a google doc may be better - as it will have more protections against people overwriting previous changes than a wiki
15:34:57 <alagalah> abhijitkumbhare: I'll consider it but both have tracking
15:35:06 <regXboi> +1 to wiki
15:35:09 <phrobb> Any further announcements
15:35:09 <regXboi> keep it in house
15:35:10 <colindixon> regXboi: we should probably take this offline to a thread, but the truth of the matter is that nearly all of our NB interfaces are now MD-SAL specific
15:35:22 <abhijitkumbhare> Yes - but with a wiki it is easier to stomp on other folk's changes
15:35:22 <ttkacik__> regXboi: +1 ... then we could have neutron to md-sal transformation...and providers which will work with md-sal neutron model
15:35:25 <regXboi> colindixon: I already said we should go offthread
15:35:30 <gzhao> abhijitkumbhare: wiki has history too
15:35:32 <deepankar> +1 to Wiki
15:35:36 <regXboi> because I frankly don't agree with that
15:36:03 <phrobb> … Last Call for Annoucements
15:36:13 <edwarnicke> regXboi: I have some thought I think may be in line with your concerns
15:36:21 <edwarnicke> regXboi: We should talk offline and bring it to the meeting
15:36:27 <abhijitkumbhare> Well google docs folks can edit simultaneously - wiki only one version will get saved
15:36:29 <regXboi> edwarnicke: agreed
15:36:42 <phrobb> #topic Any Questions on what should, or should not be in your Lithium Release Plan
15:36:55 <deepankar> for LBaaS  there is bug https://bugs.opendaylight.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1674 , which needs to fixed for LBaaS v2 to be working correctly
15:38:29 <regXboi> deepankar: that bug is misfiled
15:38:39 <regXboi> neutron is NOT part of ovsdb, it's part of controller
15:39:30 <vishnoianil> but seems like it's assigned to srini
15:40:20 <edwarnicke> vishnoianil: bugs should follow code, not humans ;)
15:40:35 <edwarnicke> (meaning, we can assign it to srini in whatever the appropriate place for the bug to be filed is ;) )
15:40:45 <regXboi> edwarnicke is correct
15:40:49 <vishnoianil> yeah unfortunately we need human to write that code
15:41:04 <edwarnicke> vishnoianil: Sure... but anybody can submit a patch anywhere ;)
15:41:14 <colindixon> phrobb: I think the answer is no, but my guess is that some will emerge from looking over release plans as we move forward
15:41:35 <regXboi> colindixon: I would say "no for now"
15:41:39 <phrobb> Yep agreed colindixon
15:41:43 <regXboi> but I agree with the rest of the statement
15:41:48 <colindixon> phrobb: we should probably encourage projects to look at others release plans
15:42:11 <phrobb> I think you just did :-)  Want to #info it?
15:42:45 <vishnoianil> edwarnicke: generally people don't pick up the bugs that's already assigned, so time to move it to controller and keep it open for takers :)
15:43:03 <edwarnicke> vishnoianil: We can assign controller bugs to srini ;)
15:43:12 <regXboi> #info projects are encouraged to review other projects release plans to look for places where cross-project friction might occur
15:43:30 <colindixon> thanks
15:43:30 <regXboi> phrobb: does that work?
15:43:37 <vishnoianil> edwarnicke: i was pointing toward what if current taker is missing ;)
15:43:57 <abhijitkumbhare> colindixon phrobb gzhao - may be in the action items tracked for each project we should have one whether dependencies on other projects have been conveyed and have been acked
15:44:00 <colindixon> I think it’s more general than that, but it works, I think if people scan realease plans they will find things
15:44:00 <alagalah> regXboi: phrobb colindixon I shall make it an agenda item on the wiki with a lijnk to gzhao spreasheet with has links to the rp's
15:44:11 <regXboi> alagalah: works for me
15:44:18 <phrobb> #info, it will be very important for cross-project tracking that all projects read and understand the release plans of projects within their "dependency path"  Also, any features or bugs that need to be implemented/fixed should be documented in the dependent release plans so that everyone knows, and can track those items.
15:44:24 <rovarga> I have a general question on feature-complete projects' release plan ;-)
15:44:43 <edwarnicke> vishnoianil: apologies... I totally misunderstood ;)
15:45:01 <phrobb> rovarga:  go for it
15:45:05 <rovarga> specifically, tcpmd5 is feature-complete and all it can really do in this release is to reorganize structure, add maybe a few tests and and improve documentation
15:45:50 <gzhao> #info abhijitkumbhare suggest in the action items tracked for each project we should have one whether dependencies on other projects have been conveyed and have been acked
15:45:58 <rovarga> so aside from the general documentation requirements we have not much to put into the release plan
15:46:15 <rovarga> (which really was the point of splitting it out)
15:46:44 <colindixon> rovarga: I think it’s find to have no project-specific deliverables other than to fix bugs
15:46:50 <colindixon> fine
15:47:33 <mlemay> @colindixon: for these type of projects should they be encouraged to a new project lifecycle?
15:47:39 <gzhao> phrobb: colindixon maybe project dependency acked should be added to M2
15:47:46 <phrobb> Last call for release plan questions
15:48:25 <phrobb> gzhao:  Yes, let's at least make it part of the M2 Report Out template
15:48:35 <vishnoianil> I would suggest we should have section on main page of each project where other project can list themselves as dependency
15:48:48 <colindixon> vishnoianil: I like that idea
15:48:54 <vishnoianil> it will be easy for the project tech to communicate any major change that's going to be effect them
15:49:05 <colindixon> really having a dependency graph which people check is good, but also putting it on the wiki isn’t bad either
15:49:10 <deepankar> +1 for the idea
15:49:23 <vishnoianil> at openflowplugin we had a discussion to proactively share our agenda to all the dependent project
15:49:24 <colindixon> gzhao: could you make a graphviz (or whatever) dependency diagram again as you gather information?
15:49:40 * edwarnicke wonders if we could derive the project dependency graph automagically from the JJB stuff
15:49:41 <vishnoianil> just to save the last time issues which we had in helium release
15:49:56 <edwarnicke> zxiiro has helpfully put a mechanism where you can just list the projects you depend on and your integration job runs
15:49:57 <gzhao> colindixon: will do
15:49:58 <zxiiro> edwarnicke: probably, but we'd need more projects in there first
15:50:04 <alagalah> colindixon: gzhao I would ask that this time for the dependency tree its in google draw (ie edittable)
15:50:13 <edwarnicke> zxiiro: Who still needs to migrate?
15:50:44 <alagalah> #info alagalah asks: colindixon: gzhao I would ask that this time for the dependency tree its in google draw (ie edittable)
15:51:01 <alagalah> (only did that cos I am going to use these minutes to help structure the agenda on the wiki etc)
15:51:12 * regXboi asks if we expect to run past the top of the hour?
15:51:14 <zxiiro> If you look at the tabs at the top, those are the projects have have migrated: https://jenkins.opendaylight.org/releng/
15:51:42 <colindixon> phrobb: did we have other topics for today?
15:51:44 <phrobb> #topic Meeting Cadence and Schedule for next Cross-Project IRC Meeting
15:51:48 <zxiiro> edwarnicke: there's still quiet a few projects who have not yet. I've been reaching out to a few projects at a time to try to help them move
15:52:12 <phrobb> There have been three options brought forth thus far.....
15:52:37 * regXboi waits for phrobb to list
15:52:38 <phrobb> 1 - Alternate 7am and 7pm PST Wednesday mornings
15:52:56 <edwarnicke> #info patch for the proposed neutron yang model: https://git.opendaylight.org/gerrit/13970
15:53:11 <phrobb> 2 - Hold two meetings each week, 7am and 7pm each Wednesday
15:53:45 <alagalah> phrobb: preference for 1 mtg per week, alternating
15:54:02 <alagalah> phrobb: (option1)
15:54:03 <phrobb> 3 - Hold fixed meeting time at 6am (or 6:30am) PST we Wednesday
15:54:18 <regXboi> I think I would prefer 7am PST wed morning and 7pm PST tues night instead - that way we can schedule 1 and if need be go with 2
15:54:23 * alagalah should learn to read... sigh... srry
15:54:34 <phrobb> Does anyone want to suggest another time schedule before we vote on these three?
15:54:59 <phrobb> last call for other alternatives....
15:54:59 <abhijitkumbhare> As I said I prefer option 3 as I think the only timezone for whom today’s meeting time of 7 am Pacific is not suitable would be somewhere between Japan and Alaska.
15:55:07 <regXboi> phrobb: I have an alternative
15:55:17 <phrobb> ok regXboi
15:55:20 <ebrjohn> 7pm PST will be really hard for those in Europe, as it will be 4am
15:55:26 <ttkacik__> I prefer 3
15:55:35 <abhijitkumbhare> Yes - that's my feeling ebrjohn
15:55:36 <ebrjohn> I prefer option 3
15:55:53 <dneary> I had a general question, if we're near the end of the agenda
15:55:57 <deepankar> option 3
15:56:05 <regXboi> I propose alternating between 7am Wed morning and 7pm Tues Evening - that way if after the 7pm Tues Evening meeting there are open issues, a second meeting on 7am Wed morning can be held
15:56:06 <phrobb> that question on 3 is will we get enough U.S. west-coasters
15:56:23 <regXboi> I can say flat out that I will NEVER be able to make #3
15:56:30 <regXboi> and I'm not a US west coaster
15:56:41 <liemmn> #3 won't work for me either
15:56:45 <dneary> (re timezones, I will repeat my suggestion to avoid real-time meetings where possible, with a suggestion to alternate times by 12h every week)
15:57:11 <dneary> So option 1 as the best of the options
15:57:12 <ttkacik__> regXboi: 7pm will not work atleast for yangtools, controller, bgpcep, openflowjava
15:57:14 <abhijitkumbhare> Option 3 can be modified to 7 am Pacific (instead of 6 am or 6:30 am)
15:57:26 <lori> as ebrjohn pointed out, 7pm PST is impossible for Europeans
15:57:26 <regXboi> ttkacik_: that is why I want to alternate
15:57:47 <gzhao> 7am PST will be better than 6:00
15:57:58 <abhijitkumbhare> regXboi - whom exactly are we alternating it for?
15:58:07 <abhijitkumbhare> which timezone?
15:58:14 <phrobb> OK so now there is a fourth option as well:  4 - alternating between 7am Wed morning and 7pm Tues Evening - that way if after the 7pm Tues Evening meeting
15:58:42 <regXboi> abhijitkumbhare: I have a general preference for spreading the pain - if I had my druthers, I'd rotate on 3 8-hour separations
15:58:53 <mohnish> if we are going to alternate, will 9am and 9pm PST meeting slots work/
15:59:08 <bigalh> +1 to changing option 3 to 7am
15:59:21 <Venkat_> Alternate time is convenient for team in India...
15:59:21 <abhijitkumbhare> 9 pm Pacific is 12 am EST
15:59:32 <bigalh> curious - who is "left out" at this time slot?  (7am PST)
15:59:41 <abhijitkumbhare> exactly bigalh
15:59:53 <phrobb> Week One:  7:00am PST (4pm Slovakia, 8pm Bangalore, 11pm Shenzhen, Midnight Tokyo)
15:59:54 <phrobb> Week Two:  7:00pm PST (4AM Slovakia,, 8am Bangalore, 11am Shenzhen, noon Tokyo)
16:00:13 <phrobb> 7am is tough for Japan
16:00:25 <regXboi> bigalh: 7am it rought for Japan/Australia/New Zealand
16:00:27 <bigalh> thanks for the clarification
16:00:49 <ebrjohn> Isnt Bangalore 3 1/2 hours ahead of Europe??
16:01:01 <regXboi> also Hawaii
16:01:02 <dneary> bigalh, Some West coast, Australia, tough for China & SE Asia (some people have families, etc, and 10pm or 11pm meetings really are not nice)
16:01:32 <Sachi> 7 AM PST is 8.30PM bangalore
16:01:37 <edwarnicke> regXboi: Do we have folks in Hawaii? ;)
16:01:52 <regXboi> edwarnicke: should we call for volunteers? :)
16:02:15 <colindixon> so, should we do a poll
16:02:18 <colindixon> via doodle or something?
16:02:22 <ttkacik__> regXboi: we should base time on interested parties
16:02:29 <regXboi> ttkacik__: no
16:02:29 <colindixon> I don’t see how else we’re going to resolve this
16:02:30 <alagalah> colindixon: yes
16:02:30 <abhijitkumbhare> phrobb - why don't we try 2 meetings next week and see how it goes?
16:02:34 <ttkacik__> which pretty much are project leads + tsc
16:02:38 <phrobb> I know consensus is tough on this question, but should be put it to a vote?  We can do it here or I can start a condorcet poll
16:02:42 <regXboi> that's a circular argument
16:02:43 <dneary> ttkacik_: The problem with that is that it's a self fulfilling prophesy
16:02:44 <ebrjohn> colindixon: +1 for poll
16:02:45 <ttkacik__> for project tracking meeting
16:02:50 <regXboi> dneary: +1
16:02:51 <colindixon> phrobb: doing it here has a huge sampling bias
16:03:04 <dneary> ttkacik_: who will want to sign up to a project that expects you to attend 3am meetings to participate fully?
16:03:17 <alagalah> dneary: Its only the project leads
16:03:21 <ttkacik__> dneary: I understand that
16:03:22 <phrobb> colindixon:  yea, you've got a good point
16:03:41 <regXboi> alagalah: how would want to *lead* a project that expects you to attend 3am meetings on a regulare basis?
16:03:44 <dneary> colindixon, Has the project ever used mailing list voting?
16:03:47 * regXboi shudders
16:03:50 <alagalah> regXboi: no one said regularly
16:04:07 <alagalah> regXboi: It seemed like option2 was getting the most traction
16:04:07 <gzhao> as far as I am concern, 6:00am is as bad as 12:00am, could we add 7:00am PST fix option for voting
16:04:08 <phrobb> Alright, I'm going to run a condorcet poll for TSC members and Project Leaders only
16:04:15 <regXboi> alagalah: ... once a precedent is set ....
16:04:26 <alagalah> regXboi: yep, genie, bottle, got it
16:04:38 <colindixon> dneary: we have
16:04:41 <regXboi> alagalah: actually, my preference would be for #2 as well
16:04:46 <phrobb> gzhao I'll add that as an option
16:04:56 <regXboi> that just requires *somebody* to be on both meetings (shudder)
16:04:57 <alagalah> regXboi: Well your option4 which is an augment of #2 but same deal, like it
16:05:02 <gzhao> phrobb: thanks
16:05:12 <alagalah> regXboi: Well it would be offset a 12hours and a week
16:05:13 <regXboi> and I suggested option 4 so that I could be one of the people to make both
16:05:37 <phrobb> Condorcet will give us the "most liked" option since folks can rank them…
16:05:42 <regXboi> option 2 as it stands - I can't make 7pm PT wed nights - that's a standing block until May
16:05:47 <alagalah> regXboi: net net, I'm good with just voting on an option given in the poll
16:05:56 <phrobb> We are out of topics… Any last comments/questions before we adjourn?
16:06:00 <regXboi> alagalah: +1
16:06:00 <dneary> regXboi, colindixon, phrobb: If there are 2 meetings per week, what is the attendance expectation?
16:06:13 <colindixon> phrobb: did you take the action item to set up the poll?
16:06:15 <regXboi> dneary: I would expect a project lead to make one of them
16:06:25 <dneary> Should everyone attend both, or attendance be agenda driven, or is there one meeting for US & Europe, and another for Europe & Asia?
16:06:35 <regXboi> I would expect TSC members to do their best to make both
16:06:35 <edwarnicke> dneary: What we did in the past that worked was run two meetings a day
16:06:37 <abhijitkumbhare> phrobb thanks (for the condorcet poll)
16:06:39 <phrobb> #action phrobb to make a condorcet poll for meeting timing
16:06:42 <edwarnicke> dneary: Folks mostly attended just one
16:06:43 <colindixon> phrobb: also, presumably we should have two polls one of project leads and one of everyone since—unfotuantely—the first matter more
16:06:48 <dneary> regXboi, And certain people would be expected to attend both?
16:06:49 <edwarnicke> dneary: Some fearless folks attended two
16:06:57 <regXboi> dneary: TSC folks
16:07:03 <edwarnicke> dneary: If something needed deciding, it ping ponged around once
16:07:08 <edwarnicke> dneary: It worked well for *daily* meetings
16:07:15 <edwarnicke> dneary: Not sure how it will work for weeklies
16:07:16 <regXboi> dneary: and anybody else who had a masochistic streak
16:07:24 <regXboi> :)
16:08:02 <phrobb> colindixon:  two polls?  Why?  We need to know the preference of the projects (project leads voting) and the TSC members, right?  They are the essential participating parties
16:08:29 <vishnoianil> it's hard problem to solve i believe, so poll is the best option :) we live with government we don't like, so i believe same goes here :D
16:08:42 <phrobb> vishnoianil:  agreed
16:08:46 <edwarnicke> vishnoianil: Does anyone live with government they do like? ;)
16:09:01 <phrobb> Last call for any other comments questions….
16:09:22 <vishnoianil> edwarnicke: depends who got lucky :)
16:09:25 <ttkacik__> phrobb: also each time new projects join simultaneous releases... we could hold new vote
16:09:37 <phrobb> Thanks everyone!  I think we got a lot out of this gathering.
16:09:46 <phrobb> #endmeeting