18:00:21 <phrobb> #startmeeting tsc
18:00:21 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 15 18:00:21 2015 UTC.  The chair is phrobb. Information about MeetBot at http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html.
18:00:21 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:00:21 <odl_meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'tsc'
18:00:37 <phrobb> #topic Roll Call - TSC members please #info in
18:01:20 <edwarnicke> #info edwarnicke
18:01:40 <alagalah> #info alagalah (proxy jmedved)
18:01:43 <kwatsen> #info kwatsen
18:02:24 <phrobb> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/TSC:Main <— Today's agenda
18:02:30 <mohnish> #info mohnish anumala
18:02:37 <abhijitkumbhare> #info abhijitkumbhare (proxy Chris Price)
18:02:57 <phrobb> #chair tbachman dfarrell07 edwarnicke
18:02:57 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: dfarrell07 edwarnicke phrobb tbachman
18:03:00 <tbachman> :)
18:03:35 <dlenrow> #info dlenrow
18:03:47 <phrobb> #info colindixon
18:04:13 <tbachman> #link https://meetings.opendaylight.org/opendaylight-meeting/2015/tsc/opendaylight-meeting-tsc.2015-01-08-18.00.html link to minutes of last week’s meeting
18:05:13 * dfarrell07 is running late, calling in now, glad tbachman is here ;)
18:05:24 <tbachman> #info colindixon started conversation for version bumping
18:05:33 <phrobb> RajeevK_:  can you #info in?
18:05:51 <tbachman> #action colindixon will track how VTN and controller are interacting on possible AD-SAL deprecation
18:06:06 <phrobb> #topic Agenda bashing and action item roundup
18:06:20 <tbachman> #info colindixon sent mail encouraging projects to get projects tracking what happens in the TSC
18:06:51 <tbachman> #info hideyuki says they don’t have any problems with AD-SAL deprecation so far
18:07:21 <tbachman> #info edwarnicke asks if we agreed on a time for having the cross-project neutron discussions
18:07:39 <tbachman> #info colindixon says he sent an email asking to get this sorted, but doesn’t want to dictate the time
18:07:53 <regXboi> #info regXboi for roll call (running late)
18:08:13 <tbachman> #info zxiiro submitted patches to projects to rename soar jobs
18:08:13 <dfarrell07> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/TSC:Main#Agenda Agenda for today's call
18:08:42 <tbachman> #info zxiiro investigated ways to maintain the history if we rename the projects; sent email on this
18:09:15 <tbachman> #info colindixon added Java 8 to TSC topics for this week
18:09:52 <tbachman> #info sdean778 submitted bugzilla enhancement requests and email to controller-dev listing changes they want from MD-SAL/controller on their project plan
18:10:11 <tbachman> #action dlenrow to post slides for the intent project to the mailing list
18:10:33 <edwarnicke> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Controller_Core_Functionality_Tutorials:Lithium_Release_Plan
18:10:54 * tbachman thinks that DIDM and ALTO provided release plans… is looking for the emails
18:11:24 <tbachman> #undo
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18:11:25 <tbachman> #undo
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18:11:41 <tbachman> #info dlenrow posted slides for the intent project to the mailing list
18:12:01 <alagalah> tbachman: Which mailing list ???
18:12:13 <tbachman> alagalah: good point — might have been a wiki
18:12:17 <tbachman> #topic Updates]
18:12:19 <tbachman> #undo
18:12:19 <odl_meetbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x2498c50>
18:12:22 <tbachman> #topic Updates
18:12:37 <alagalah> dlenrow: Which mailing list did you send it to, bud ?
18:12:47 <tbachman> #info phrobb asks for papers for ODL summit
18:13:13 <tbachman> #info phrobb is looking at venues on 14th/15th or 15th/16th of April for milestone sync
18:14:25 <dfarrell07> #info phrobb looking at tech event in India in April, to allow ODL tech community to come together
18:14:35 <dfarrell07> #undo
18:14:35 <odl_meetbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x285af50>
18:14:37 <tbachman> dfarrell07: too fast!
18:14:39 <tbachman> #info phrobb says they want to do a technical event in India around the week of April 18th, with 1/2 day tutorial and lightning talks to allow the community in India to coalesce
18:14:46 <dfarrell07> #info phrobb looking at tech event in India in April, to allow ODL tech community in India to come together
18:15:28 <abhijitkumbhare> #info phrobb says Anil helping out on the India event
18:15:33 <tbachman> #info ONS is week of June 14th; ODL will have presence
18:15:52 <tbachman> #topic System Integration/Test
18:16:03 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez sent mail to community requesting input on priorities for testing
18:16:03 <dfarrell07> #info LuisGomez has mailed community to ask for prios for system int and test for Li
18:16:09 <dfarrell07> #undo
18:16:09 <odl_meetbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x285a990>
18:16:15 <dfarrell07> tbachman: you're the super-fast one, lol
18:16:29 <tbachman> #topic Lithium and Stable/Helium Release Updates
18:16:31 <tbachman> dfarrell07: lol
18:16:40 * dfarrell07 lets tbachman pwn/own notes ;)
18:16:49 <tbachman> #info zxiiro is looking into getting the auto-release build going
18:17:54 <dlenrow> I missed this on agenda bashing, but want to discuss getting intent project review next week and we will then ask for exceptioni to join helium
18:18:01 <tbachman> #info colindixon says he belives we’re doing the build for SR2 on Monday 1/19 using the old auto-release tools; those needing updates in SR2, they need to be in the branch by Monday
18:18:05 <tbachman> #topic infrastructure
18:18:52 <tbachman> #info tykeal says odlforge is taking a bit more time as his workload  has been “dynamic”; still hopeful to have it done by the end of the month, but there’s the possibility that more puppet modules are needed to do this in a clean fashion
18:19:14 <edwarnicke> dlenrow: I also somehow missed agenda bashing and was curious about discussing the port 8080 thing, but you go first :)
18:19:25 <tbachman> #info zxiiro submitted patches to all of the projects for sonar
18:20:10 <tbachman> #info dlenrow asks if we’re still having a hackfest at the Linux event on Feb 18th
18:20:27 <zxiiro> #info also a discussion started about sonar reports for all branches if they are useful or not https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/discuss/2015-January/004285.html
18:20:34 <tbachman> #info phrobb says there’s no hackfest scheduled; still looking into a 1/2-day track on a discussion across projects (openstack, OPNFV, etc.)
18:20:40 <tbachman> zxiiro: thx!
18:21:49 <tbachman> #info edwarnicke says there’s discussion on the lists about moving the AD-SAL to port 8282 from port 8080, and asks if this should be discussed by the TSC
18:22:38 <tbachman> #info dlenrow would like to make sure that the intent project is schedule for a creation review for next week’s TSC, and is also okay’d for an exception to be included in the Lithium simultaneous release
18:22:47 <tbachman> #topic Committer Promotions
18:22:52 <edwarnicke> #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/discuss/2015-January/004261.html - conversation about moving adsal to port 8282 and the stock jetty to port 8080
18:23:08 <tbachman> #info plugin2oc had a committer promotion, but there’s no members of the project on the TSC call
18:23:20 <tbachman> #info committer promotion deferred to next week
18:24:11 <phrobb> #info colindixon asks "should we discuss 1 topic for 30 minutes, or spend 10 minutes as an intro to each topic"
18:24:36 * tbachman forgets what the topics were… goes to mailing archives....
18:25:07 <tbachman> #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/tsc/2015-January/002429.html email from colindixon on topics that could be discussed by teh TSC
18:25:16 <phrobb> #info - topics - Helim Lifetime, Use Cases, and Future Release Mechanics
18:25:30 <tbachman> #info regXboi says we Helium lifetime should be discussed now and a decision should be made
18:25:36 <phrobb> #topic "Helium Lifetime"
18:25:38 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks how long we should support heliuj
18:25:40 <tbachman> #undo
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18:25:49 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks how long we should support helium
18:25:51 <tbachman> phrobb: thx!
18:26:37 <tbachman> #info colindixon says given the number of member companies that are shipping code on top of it, it seems like our current strategy isn’t sufficient; do we need to support helium for a longer period, and if so, how much longer; do we need more releases?
18:26:58 <tbachman> #info colindixon says we could continue to ship releases until beryllium is released
18:27:31 <tbachman> #info regXboi says he’d support Helium with SR’s until LIthium is released, and after that support security patches only until Beryllium; and after Beryllium, users are “on their own"
18:28:15 <tbachman> #info alagalah asks if the structure of the releases going forward would affect things like Lithium’s lifespan or Beryllium’s lifespan
18:28:50 <tbachman> #info regXboi says that makes perfect sense, and amends proposal to say as a starting point that until release x+1, we support security patches until x+2, and after x+2 you’re on your own
18:29:15 <regXboi> tbachman: that's not quite right
18:29:21 <tbachman> regXboi: amend ?
18:29:26 <tbachman> #undo
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18:29:36 <tykeal> would there ever be an idea of an LTS (long term support) release?
18:29:39 <rovarga_> regXboi: does that pertain to SRs, or does this apply to release artifacts as well (if we get to continuous delivery)?
18:29:54 <regXboi> #info regXboi says support release X with 6 week SRs until X+1, release X with security releases only until X+2 and after X+2 you are on your own
18:29:55 <alagalah> tykeal: Iwas thinking on the same lines but thats a toughie
18:30:07 <regXboi> rovarga_: I'm thinking SR only
18:30:09 <alagalah> tykeal:  (see future "code quality" discussion agenda item :) )
18:30:14 <tykeal> hehe
18:30:33 <regXboi> I'm not sure I can handle the extra continuous delivery dimension this morning :)
18:30:35 <tbachman> #info tykeal asks if there would ever be an idea of an LTS release?
18:30:48 <tbachman> #info colindixon says he thinks it’s a good idea, but he’s not sure which release we want to do that with yet
18:30:51 <tykeal> phrobb: tie-keel ;) not TCL / teakle ;)
18:31:03 <tbachman> should we wait for a “core” part of the controller first?
18:31:07 <alagalah> tykeal: Too late...
18:31:22 <rovarga_> tykeal: I do not think we can support that before Be ships
18:31:32 <phrobb> tykeal:  :-)
18:32:08 <tykeal> I wasn't suggesting supporting TCL! I was correcting phrobb's pronunciation of my handle :D
18:32:10 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if anyone on the TSC disagrees witht he policy to promise security patches for the previous 2 releases, starting with Helium
18:32:26 <alagalah> tykeal: I think rovarga_ was referring to LTS
18:32:30 <tykeal> ah
18:32:35 <tbachman> #info regXboi says that as we go along, we can amend that (e.g. starting in Boron, we’re going to support it for 3 releases, or 3 years, etc.)
18:33:06 <tbachman> phrobb: want to handle the agreed?
18:33:13 * tbachman prefers such official things come from phrobb  ;)
18:33:24 * tbachman hears nasty sounds
18:33:26 <alagalah> Seems like webex is anti-regxboi
18:33:31 <tbachman> lolp
18:33:38 <rovarga_> sorry
18:33:39 <regXboi> that was odd
18:33:53 <regXboi> and it wasn't me, alagalah
18:33:55 <dneary> Fun :-)
18:33:55 <rovarga_> what would be the delivery vehicle for the security fixes?
18:34:02 <phrobb> tbachman:  no need
18:34:05 <alagalah> regXboi: I know it wasn't you, but it happened when you were trying to make a point... hence...
18:34:41 <rovarga_> e.g. my concern is that it extends the amount of commitment for projects in He (I think the commitment was for two subsequent updates)
18:35:33 <tbachman> #info rovarga_ notes that if we start with Helium, then we’re changing the committment for the projects that joined Helium
18:35:51 <phrobb> tbachman:  I often don't follow the conversation closely when other things going on, so I appreciate accurate and complete statements.  You do a good job at that
18:35:57 <tbachman> phrobb: np!
18:36:01 <tbachman> and thx ;)
18:36:18 <rovarga_> shipping a SR requires actoin even on project who have not seen code changes
18:36:47 <rovarga_> and we have had a problem of projects not being in the clear how much of resource they need to commit post-release before
18:37:12 <rovarga_> so, I personally do not have a problem with this, but I think projects should have some say in this
18:37:33 <tbachman> #info colindixon says we should consider starting this policy starting with Beryllium
18:37:49 <tbachman> #info rovarga_ says it might be a good idea to consult the projects on this first to see where they stand
18:38:21 <tbachman> #info colindixon says he feels the security updates make sense regardless
18:38:38 <rovarga_> right, but we also need to plan for security updates
18:38:51 * tbachman wasn’t sure of the timing?
18:38:54 <rovarga_> because with our release mechanics, while we are releasing, we cannot issue additional patches
18:39:08 <rovarga_> (I think, I may be very wrong here)
18:39:13 <phrobb> #agreed ODL will ship security releases for two releases back
18:39:29 <tbachman> phrobb: so, no timeframe, just a policy?
18:39:54 <tbachman> #info regXboi says it would be good to set up a condorcet vote for the project leads on security updates
18:40:05 <phrobb> tbachman:  not sure… was there a timeframe?
18:40:11 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if there are any projects that were in Helium that aren’t in Lithium
18:40:33 <tbachman> #info phrobb says possibly — packetcable is still in question
18:41:23 <tbachman> #action phrobb to find out if there are any projects in Helium that aren’t in Lithium, and look into setting up a condorcet vote on the policy of shipping security releases (as applies to Helium)
18:42:29 <tbachman> #info zxiiro  says for eclipse that after a release is cut, they maintain up to one branch prior except for 3.9 to 4.2 where they maintained two releases
18:44:05 <tbachman> #info zxiiro says that security patches are done in a simultaneous release including a new bundle that was created; they use pt repositories, which are self-contained repositories of jar files, and when eclipse is pointed to the repository, it gets all the jar files for the simultaneous release
18:44:15 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks how far back they do security updates
18:44:28 <tbachman> #info zxiiro says the only do one release behind (for security updates)
18:46:17 * tbachman didn’t get all of that
18:46:17 <tbachman> lol
18:46:56 * edwarnicke wonders who's on first ;)
18:47:12 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if projects want to support 0/2, 1/2, or 2/2 prior releases (release/securityupdate)
18:47:19 <tbachman> edwarnicke: lol
18:47:22 <phrobb> #info the vote phrobb is setting  has 3 options. 1) only support to SRs after release, 2) support bug/security until next major release, 3) or bug/security fixes until the next two releases are shipped
18:47:45 <tbachman> phrobb: thx!
18:48:02 <tykeal> lol
18:48:41 <tbachman> #info abhijitkumbhare asks what bug fixes in the next major release means; do we have to back-port all of them to stable-helium?
18:49:00 <tbachman> #info colindixon says that probably should be up to projects, but a best-effort to do back-ports might be what this means
18:49:43 <rovarga_> does that mean that there will be a He release coinciding with Li release?
18:49:53 <tbachman> #info phrobb notes we are making the statement that even if a project doesn’t have any fixes to put in, they’re still obligated to run their tests
18:50:07 <tbachman> #info colindixon says we can only strongly encourage (i.e. can’t tell projects what to do here)
18:50:25 <tbachman> #info rovarga_ asks if that means there will be a Helium release coinciding with a Lithium release?
18:51:39 * tbachman notes ~10 mins left; still have java8 and use cases
18:52:16 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez asks if we can include the question of how often we have to do a service release
18:52:28 <tbachman> #info colindixon says it would be roughly every 6 weeks
18:52:46 <tbachman> #info phrobb  asks if would be reasonable to in the 2nd year drop it to quarterly releases
18:53:03 <tbachman> #info colindixon says lets go with no more than 6 weeks for now, and see what projects say
18:53:55 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez says that today when we do a service release, there are a bunch of projects without automation, which means a bunch of manual testing for a service release
18:54:14 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez that will change given the new release requirements in Lithium
18:54:38 <tbachman> #action colindixon to make sure we have a plan on how to do service updates than what was done in Helium
18:54:43 <phrobb> #action colindixon to add plan for service updates than what we did for the Li release plan
18:55:13 * edwarnicke just realized how awesome it is that all of our releases have two character short names ;)
18:55:19 <tbachman> lol
18:55:30 <alagalah> edwarnicke: yay chemistry
18:55:32 <tbachman> edwarnicke: better than our class names /ME ducks
18:55:35 <phrobb> edwarnicke:  I totally agree!
18:55:48 <alagalah> edwarnicke: until we hit elements that have one char
18:55:56 <edwarnicke> org.opendaylight.person.urn.tbachman: What do you mean?
18:56:01 <tbachman> lol
18:56:05 <dneary> We're back to 1h meetings? W00t!
18:56:13 * edwarnicke does a happy dance!
18:56:19 <tbachman> dneary: ack (and double-w00t)
18:57:41 <tbachman> #topic cookies
18:58:01 <tykeal> #link http://thedecoratedcookie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/wm.rainbowparty_cookies2.jpg happy cookies for 1 hour TSC :)
18:58:12 * tbachman missed that last bit from colindixon
18:58:29 <tbachman> #endmeeting